Grit.org Podcast #43 with Grit Brokerage

Check out the lastest episode of our podcast where the Grit Brokerage team discusses recent sales, NamesCon 2024 recap, Grit being recognized as a top 5 Masters of Domains for Escrow.com, acquisition of Harbin.com, coming face to face with a gorilla, and co-hosted with one of the youngest new domainers in the industry!

Welcome to the Grit.org podcast with Colby Harris and Brian Harbin. In these episodes, they speak to top achievers in athletics and business to understand the habits and mindset they apply in order to build more grit.

[I can. I can. I will. I will. I'm going to. I'm going to.]

Brian Harbin: Welcome to the grit.org podcast. My name is Brian Harbin. This is Stone Harbin with me in the studio today. We also have Tess Diaz joining us and Michael Law. 

So today really just want to talk to you guys about domain conferences. So all three of us just got back from Namescon and Tess is at a conference pretty much every few weeks. She's somewhere around the world and just got back from Rwanda and so excited to talk to you guys today about domain conferences, the value add and what we also take from it as well. 

So, Tess, we'll kick it over to you to kick us off.

Tess Diaz: Sure. Thanks, Brian! I'm very excited to be here, especially with you and Michael! 

And super cool to meet Stone for the first time. This is going to be a good podcast. So domain conferences, that's definitely a conversation piece for me lately. So I have been having a blast checking out all the conferences and they do. There is different value for different people, different reasons to go or not go, or just check in with other attendees to hear what's happening at many different conferences. 

So I kind of started, I would say, my little circuit last August at Helmut says domain summit he's acquired now domainsummit.com and Michael, I know you were there, you spoke on a panel, and that was a good networking one, especially for people in the UK. I thought a number of Indians came because it's just an easier flight route for them than all the way over to the US. So it was good for networking and domain investors. 

So I'm sorry, I'm in a hotel in London right now and someone is knocking on my door. I'll just ignore it, but. Sorry. So after that, my next big conference was domain days, Dubai in end of October. And that was a first year conference. It had phenomenal networking as well, from a different region, right. And it was both domain investors and actual user, actual end users. So that was incredible for that region. 

So there are conferences that might just be valuable because of the region where they are. And then I've been going to the majority of the bigger Icann events as well. So there have been two big policy events, DC last year and Rwanda last week in Kigali. And then the contracted party summit was just in Paris in March and what's really happening with new GTLDs coming out is a lot of policy is being discussed, a lot of even brands, vendors, infrastructure. It's interesting to see who's attending what companies are trying to get into the infrastructure side or looking at new TLDs. And that affects all of us.

Brian Harbin: And Tess, I did want to ask you too, just for everybody listening and for stone too. So GTLDs, tell us a little bit about those, for people that don't understand what those mean and why those are being introduced.

Tess Diaz: Yeah, that's a great question. So back in the day we had like com, net, org, right? And .com was not always king. In fact, it was probably in third place. And, but anyway, we had comnet.org, then we have the CC TLDs, which are the country code TLDs. Like, you know, Germany was given de, like Deutschland. And we know, you know, the United States has .US, and a small island nation of Tuvalu got the domain name .tv and the country of Montenegro got .me like me, and each country got to choose what they did with it. 

So we've seen, for example, .tv and .me decided to open up to sell to the rest of the world as well. Japan says you have to live in Japan and have a Japanese address. Each country can have different rules, so that's what the Cctlds are. And then in 2012 there was an option to have GTLDs and that's where you could get .NYC for New York or .eco or .green for the sustainability movement or .microsoft or .fox for a brand. 

So we saw a lot of those in 2012 and now we have a new round where people can apply again for those is coming up in 2026. So there's tremendous preparation for it right now. And there's a lot of investment and research going into it right now because the infrastructure needs to be in place. So we're seeing which companies are making which moves who's interested and how just by even just seeing who attends the conference is an indicator and then there's a lot of opportunity in it. 

But it also affects domain investors because what's going to be out there and how do you want to diversify your portfolio if you know these new things are coming? Right? And I'm not giving advice to anyone certainly, but saying to know what's on the horizon is helpful even we've seen .ai and .io rise. Right? So now all of a sudden dot whatever is much more accepted. So it might be different in the future. So, yeah.

Brian Harbin: Interesting! So do you think that more companies that already own one are going after and accumulating more? Or is it just certain companies that are just going after a specific word that they want to kind of own? The red of the dot?

Tess Diaz: We're seeing a lot of blockchain and web three interest, which is not surprising, right, because they want to be able to connect web two and web three. And then a lot of brands have interest for various reasons. But at the end of the day, if you look at it, brands are really struggling, especially the ultra brands, top household names are really struggling to unify everything that they own under the same format. Right? 

So if you can't get, you know, brand name, product name .com consistently, then what do you do? And maybe that's not as important for a clothing brand as it is for a software brand. So there's a lot of interest in. But you control the entire experience if it's on your brand and it's more secure if it's on your brand. 

So even just monitoring things internally, if, say you work at a bank, a large global bank, and you say, well, if it ends in .our brand bank, that's the protocol for internal employees. So with such emphasis on security, having your own ownership of the TLD can be really helpful. And we're seeing interest in that.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And so as an example too, like if somebody wanted like jacks, right, then you could sell anything to the left of it. But, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but the last round, it was like 250 grand was the starting price and it could potentially go up from there. And then you've got, what I think about 50 grand a year in renewals. So you really have to have like a good case for it. Otherwise, you know, the cost of it gets pretty expensive over time. Right? Are the costs gonna be pretty similar to what they have been in the past or….

Tess Diaz: So I've more looked at the cost on the RSP, the registry service provider. That's what I've been sitting in on a lot, and that's about double what it was last time. And frankly, I mean, compared with inflate, they have their reasons and compared with inflation, they make a good point and this and that, but it does seem prohibitive and difficult. 

But you know, ICann is a very complex organization, so that's on the RSP side, because you have to have someone who's actually going to provide the technical back end for your domain name, I mean, for your TLD. But I have not really looked very closely, to be honest. But I would suspect it's pretty similar. I don't think much as much has changed on that side. On the technical side, they're doing more audits to make sure that you have the technical infrastructure in place to actually provide those services. But on the TLD side, I think it's going to be pretty similar.

Brian Harbin: And I'm curious too. Cause I mean, you. So you go to a lot of conferences, probably since August. What would you guess? Maybe 15 or so or not that many. Ten plus, probably.

Tess Diaz: Yeah, probably, yeah. Cause I go to private events as well. Like, you know, later this week I'm gonna go INWX, which is a great german registrar. They're having their 20th anniversary party. So, you know, I'm gonna go. They're having. The night before is a more, you know, intimate, like, c suite type night that'll go to that. And then the next night is a larger, a larger party. The first night is a dinner. 

So it's really interesting meeting with a lot of registrars, hearing what's happening on that end. Of course, particularly with NIS two, which is the EU's next cybersecurity and data protection. It's kind of like how GDPR changed everything. This is the next thing. So just hearing all of that is good and really insightful. Just security, security, security. It's everywhere in every decision. And it should be in your, you know, sales pitches with domain names too. Right? 

If they have data leakage, they have the potential for, especially employees sending private info to the wrong. You know, when one employee means to send it to another employee and they accidentally send it externally, you know, that's a real issue. So.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, and so, you know, last question for you. I wanted to ask, you know, so kind of what's your mindset going into a conference? I mean, you do a great job as – as far as just, you know, connecting with people and remembering previous conversations and just, you know, seeing how a need somebody has over here can connect with somebody here. But, you know, what's kind of your mentality going into a conference or what is it you're looking to typically to get from a conference or where do you feel like you like to add value at conferences?

Tess Diaz: Yeah, I think in particular is reading up on what's the content, which content is relevant to me and who are the people? Even if there's not a public list, if you're involved in social media, you can see you don't have to post yourself, you can see who else is attending, get an idea and have a goal for the conference. Don't just show up like life doesn't really happen to us. We need to be active members of directing that. Right?

And during the conference, I have definitely learned over time to be more present because you see all these people you haven't seen in forever or you've never met in person, and you get so excited. But to really focus on who's in front of me and connecting with them, but also being intentional.

And sometimes it can be hard to say whether I've scheduled a meeting with who I want to meet with or, you know, bumping into them in an intentional fashion, hopefully, and then doing the follow ups after the conference, not just the quick LinkedIn connection, but whether you take notes yourself of who'd I meet, what we talk about, or you send a follow up email connecting and reminding, you know, or something, and then scheduling the calls after that with these people to keep the momentum going, it's. It's difficult, but a conference scheduling is not just the days that you're there. 

So I really try afterwards to have a few days or a few. I'll usually do like, you know, Monday morning, Tuesday afternoon, Wednesday morning is my, all my follow up items so that I can break it up a little, but that it's – It still gets done.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. Follow up is key, for sure.

Tess Diaz: Yeah.

Brian Harbin: Well, excellent! Well, Michael Law, welcome to the Grit.org podcast. It's great seeing you, as always, in Austin, Texas. So I know for you, you've been to at least, you know, a dozen or so conferences over the year, over the years. So tell us a little bit about your experience at names, con and a couple of your takeaways.

Micheal Law: Yeah, yeah, for sure. It was awesome seeing you guys. I'm glad we got to have a couple drinks and meals together. Always a good time. And, you know, it's funny, I was kind of thinking about the last few podcasts we've done, and it's almost all of them that we've done for grit over the last year has kind of been on the back of a recent conference or meetup, so we do end up talking about them quite often. 

But, you know, since our podcast goes out quarterly, you know, that's kind of what's fresh and what we want to talk about. But, yeah, there's, you know, there's no denying that these conferences are, you know, incredibly important for us as brokers building relationships. There's just so much, you know, exciting collaboration that happens. Once you've got some experience under your belt and you're seen as a trustworthy person in the industry, you know, things really start to fall into place with lots of new business. 

And, you know, while it can be stressful at times, it's definitely very rewarding, you know, both financially and, you know, it feels great to make new connections, put deals together, and help people out. So, you know, in Austin, you know, as Tess said and, you know, said earlier, had just an amazing time. 

Every time I come back from a conference, you know, I'm re energized and more motivated. But, yeah, the way that things were kind of shaped up this year after Namescon 2024, we were there discussing several big deals with clients and buyers, and I made just a whole bunch of new connections with potential clients for the future. But I returned home more bullish than I've ever been on. The future, the domain industry. So I think that just says a lot about our business and about the trajectory of the domain industry in general. 

So, yeah, so on the conference topic, I love Austin. I think they're moving it next year, maybe to a different city, which will be welcome for quite a few people. But I also had some notes on a few domains that we're working on that I can go over and maybe touch on a couple of sales as well. 

Brian Harbin: Sounds great!

Micheal Law: Yeah. So right before names con, we had just signed up a really killer domain. It's a four letter word, it's dose, d-o-s-e. Just a really good open vessel, amazing brand. I think it could be perfect for marketing or an advertising agency, a media company. Fashion psychedelics are blowing up right now. And that's one of the first things that I think of when I hear the word dose. 

And then the really cool thing about this deal is that for the right price, it can also include the exact match Facebook handle as well as Twitter. So x.com does and an Instagram handle. And combined, there's over 4 million followers on all those social channels that can be bought with a domain as well. So just a really incredible opportunity on that one for a company that wants to capitalize on top tier domain and an audience that's kind of built in. And that one is priced very fair as well. So definitely expect to get some activity on that one here in the next few weeks. 

And then another name that I'm really excited about is crosshair.com. So this one's really interesting. It's a friend of mine in the industry I've known for quite a while, really great guy. He's given us the opportunity to sell this incredible one word domain. And Crosshair is the cross or the intersecting lines that you use to aim for better accuracy in shooting or gaming. And so Crosshair.com comes with two trademarks, and one of them is for advertising and promotion in marketing. 

And then the other one is actually for intellectual property consulting and IP Watch services, which I think that one is an absolutely killer trademark to have. Combined with the crosshair domain, IP consulting, brand monitoring, watch services, these are all areas that are going to grow exponentially over the next few years. Kind of like how Tess was talking about what goes on at ICANN. So yeah, just very excited for the opportunity to represent that name. 

And then over on the sales side, we're pushing out a lot of great names on outbound, as always. I know we have several high end deals that just got started on a lease to own agreement and several others that are of really close to getting into escrow and first payment being made. Maybe Brian will touch on a few of those. 

But yeah, it just seems like more and more buyers and sellers these days are open to discussing leases or creative financing to make these bigger deals work. You know, it's great for everyone involved. The buyer doesn't have to fork over a huge chunk of cash to start using a domain and the seller can get some nice recurring income. And if anything happens, the buyer defaults. The seller keeps those payments and gets the domain back. 

So yeah, these are definitely starting to happen more often. Lease to own and there's other ways to structure these deals. But as companies are a little less willing to throw around a lot of cash, we are putting together a lot of deals that way as well. 

But anyway, a couple of quick sales that I had noted to share that we've gotten done recently from our outbound efforts that were all cash deals. One of them is meo.com. that's Miio. It's a brandable fourletter.com. that one was purchased by an electric vehicle company out of Portugal. So they were actually operating on their CCTLD Pt. So their site was Miiotaindev. This was an awesome acquisition for them to secure that exact match.com. and now when you go to mio.com, their site shows up in English and Mio PT is still their portuguese site. So congrats to them. Great sale for our client as well. 

And then another kind of similar one is called Phyla. So that's Phyla is a word starting with Ph and it's the plural version of phylum. And this one was sold to a skincare company that operates on Phyla Biotics. They call themselves Phyla. That's the brand on their website. So this was another great strategic purchase. 

Actually, Catherine on our team brokered this deal and it was about a year in the making. We had originally reached out to phylabiotics back in June 2023 and Catherine showed amazing patience and persistence on this deal. You know, she understood that this company was probably one of the best potential buyers for the domain and, you know, she followed up with them every few months until it finally clicked and we were able to put a deal together. So really happy to get that one closed out. 

And, you know, we also just closed escrow on a really amazing domain acquisition that I helped Brian out with, but I think I'll kick it over to him. Happy to add some input on that one, but I'll let him share the story on that.

Brian Harbin: All right, sounds great! Yeah, no awesome updates from the conference and from around the sales and acquisition side, so no AC in the studio today, so if you see beads of sweat popping up on our forehead, that's why. But, you know, really love going to domain conferences. You know, my first one was probably back around 2014 when I first started the industry. And it just, it's a lot of fun each time I go back because they're just, you know, it's like seeing old friends and faces and it's such a unique niche industry that I really love going to these conferences, but…

Yeah, getting kicked off at Austin, ICA does a great job of planning different events. They do a dinner, they do a broker breakfast, and so the broker breakfast was great to get together there, was well attended by a lot of brokers and that was great. I think a lot of people are surprised. I think we were laughing at this. 

A lot of people in the industry think that brokers don't like each other, but it's actually quite the opposite. I think they're amazed that we get along so well and our friends and I think it's a great culture among, you know, most of the brokers and especially the one that, the ones that have been around for a while and attend a lot of these conferences. So I think that's great. As a matter of fact, we've got a number of deals that we've closed or are in the process of closing with some other brokers, so just love that. Collaboration really goes a long way in the industry and I think it's good for everybody when the brokers, you know, work well together. 

You know, it's always great when the three of us are working on a deal in person. So the three of us, we're super close to selling a two letter.com domain that all three of us have been, you know, working hard on. I think we're probably at this point from airing uh, seven days from knowing um, if that's going to close. So always great just to be able to um, have deals and opportunities like that in person. 

Those are always a ton of fun when you can get those over the hump, but even then you're just that much closer to a deal the next time around. I think a big takeaway for, for all of us, uh, from names Con was the escrow.com masters of domains. They had that presentation right before the auction and it was funny because I was a little bit late to it and I think they were like at number seven and I go sit next to Michael, I'm like, did they call her name yet? He's like, know – So we were super excited that grip brokerage was the top five masters of domain. So really huge accomplishment for our team and just a lot of, you know, hard work and effort that goes into that and just great to get recognition for the team for that. And was, was really neat too. 

I mean, seven of the, I think it was either seven or eight of the top ten were all there in person. And all five were there and the top five were all there in person as well, which is great. So really appreciate escrow.com putting that on. And I think now they're going to be doing monthly updates, so were not going to have to wait till the end of the year. Were going to see on a month per month basis where we stack up. So that was a big deal. 

I think my favorite part of this particular, okay, so this was interesting because, Michael, you were in the car when somebody said this. It was after the first day and there was a number of people that really noted the energy at this particular conference, how there was definitely an uptick of energy and I think it was something you couldn't really describe. There wasn't just one thing, but it was noticeable. The energy just around the atmosphere and you know, the sales and the people that have been in this industry for a long time that are just so passionate about what we do and the direction of where it's going. And so that was a lot of fun to be a part of. 

And you know, for me, I think the part that I personally loved the most was seeing several of the veteran people in the domain industry that had their uh, their kids with them. And uh, you know, a big part of why I wanted to have stone in here today, because I think that to me is um, also an indication of the health of an industry when the next generation is getting involved. You know, you've got, you know, Paige how brought his daughter, um, and she's working on CFD and, you know, Chris Zyker son has been working with him on the brokerage side. He was there in person, you know, Daniel that works with Hilco was there, you know, he brings a fresh energy to the industry. 

And then there was even another father son duo that we saw in the, had a chance to talk to one night in the hotel bar. So, you know, I love that and the fact that they're getting their kids involved. And you know, as a matter of fact, Stone, who's a rising junior in high school, is actually just started the domain academy course. So it's really neat that here he is learning about the industry from the same guy that I learned from 14 years ago, Michael Seiger, through domain academy. So he's going through the course. 

And I think for young people, especially with people like us that are involved in the domain industry and have a portfolio either as investors or like in my case, through the companies that I work with, I think it's just important for them to know, you know, hey, just like if you're handing your kid, if your kids are going to be getting valuable real estate, it's important for them to know about real estate. 

And I think the same goes for domains is that whether, you know, stone wants to be in the domain industry long term or not, just the education piece is going to be tremendously valuable about, hey, what the heck to do with these things that dad started to accumulate and use over the years and just to see how powerful they are and, and kind of to Michael's point, this was happening kind of right around names con so Michael has a good friend shout out to Aaron for letting Michael know that Harbin.com was for sale. 

So Michael, tell us about, and Michael was kind of acting on my behalf there as the broker negotiating with the seller. So Michael, tell us about how you heard about and how you got in touch with the owners of Harbin.com.

Micheal Law: Yeah, when Aaron texted me and told me, hey, this is for sale. And it looked like it was on GoDaddy for around I think, 35,000. And I'm pretty sure you'd looked at it before, it never had a price on it. And just the word Harbin, just beyond being a last name, it's a really popular word in different parts of the world. There's a lot of different usages for it. Companies call themselves Harbin. I think there's a real popular beer named Harbin. 

But anyway, we looked at the domain and, you know, it was owned by a chinese registrant. And so we, you know, I reached out via email and, you know, asked if he had a price for it. And I think he came back, you know, at like 60 or, sorry, $70,000 or something like that. And we told him, like, look, it's already a lot less on Godaddy. And, you know, he came back and we're translating. There's a lot lost in translation sometimes when you're, you know, he's writing in Chinese and I'm translating and writing him back in English. 

So there's a few kind of wacky messages in between here and there. But ultimately we, you know, he agreed that, you know, the price on Godaddy, you know, we can't even get that high. But we were able to put a good deal together. But it was really interesting working with this guy over in China to help negotiate this deal for Brian. Just lots of, lots of interesting back and forth.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And I think we were within a few thousand at this point. And I think we were in Austin. I was like, listen, I'm not going to mess around with it anymore. Let's just get it and be done with it and move on. And so super smooth escrow. And back in my mind, I was mentally prepared for something to go sideways. But, you know, just because I didn't want to get too excited until the deal was done. But, yeah, just remember, you know, harbin.com officially getting in the domain account and, and I don't know, I mean, for me personally, it's, you know, definitely the crown jewel in terms of, uh, you know, the domain that means the most. I know we're up on the panel at names, kind of was talking about him and escrow for the most exciting domain ever and just really, you know, just for these guys and just the potential of, of what it can be and, and what it can represent. 

So, you know, with Stone being a rising junior, you know, getting ready for college, you know, he's got stoneharbin.com and has some of his accomplishments on there. But, you know, as you start to get ready for college, that's really a chance to showcase to these, you know, not just for college, but beyond college and job interviews and things like that. So just really excited to see, you know, what and really just kind of let him use that for the next couple of years to promote himself and what he's doing and hopefully can help him stand out above other people his age that probably aren't operating on their exact name. Last time, lastname.com. 

So, Stone, tell us kind of from your opinion, what you think and kind of being new to the industry and your perspective of the next generation and why something like harbin.com can be valuable not just for you, but for anybody else that wants to acquire their own. Lastname.com.

Stone Harbin: Yeah, I think it's really Unique because, like, like you said, I don't know any other kids who can brand themselves like that, have their own last name as a .com. and, you know, colleges are always looking for that uniqueness in a student because of how competitive they get nowadays. So I just think, you know, being able to put myself in one spot kind of, and just, you know, let anyone come to look at it and, you know, even have, like, my social media handles on that so they can see, you know, everything about me. 

I just think it's so cool and it makes it more organized as well, instead of, you know, a lot of kids write down all their stuff they want to put on their resume in different spots, and, you know, you can get all that jumbled up. But, you know, when I can put it into a website and just have anyone come see it, I think it's just a great opportunity. 

And, you know, I feel like it's kind of its own thing as well that you can throw under the resume. Just the fact I have the website, you know, I can put things in there that I wouldn't put in an essay or something. So it's just cool. And I like it because I can kind of be myself and put who I am into that website. And, you know, there's not many other kids doing that, so I just want to experiment with it and see, you know, how it goes.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. So fun. Fun project.

Micheal Law: I'm, like, so jealous, by the way. Like, so, Tess, you know, Diaz, we're not going to get Diaz.com, right? I'm not going to get law.com, so just having, like, that name is just so cool. And, yeah, there's so much you can do with it down the road.

Stone Harbin: Thank you! Thank you!

Brian Harbin: Yeah, I guess especially considering there's a large city in China named Harbin. There's a big Chinese company. There's a Harbin beer ice festival. 

Tess Diaz: I liked. What's that, stone? Sorry.

Stone Harbin: The Harbin beer Ice festival. It's one of the biggest festivals in China. I actually did a school project on it.

Tess Diaz: Oh wow, that's really neat! 

Yeah, and I think you're right, Stone. You have the unique positioning where not just that you have it, but that you understand these other entities could also utilize it and how unique and fortunate it is, but also how forward thinking it is that you have it. And that's really not just the answer when we broker someone's last name, but when we broker any domain, especially something like a oneword.com, right? I mean if you don't have it, somebody else is going to have it and put it to good use. So stand out and be upfront.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, it's an interesting point test too, because I know for what we do, brokering domains and a lot of times helping people understand the value of a domain, it's so much easier helping someone that already owns a premium domain understand why another premium domain is going to help them, versus a lot of times people that have never had a premium domain, they don't see the value or in spending that additional money. 

But once you've already owned a premium domain and you see how everything gets so much easier when you have that, it just makes it a lot easier. So like you said, him coming in already, having that understanding of premium domain definitely helps. So well, that's pretty much a wrap. Anything else you guys wanted to add for today on the Grit.org podcast featuring Grit Brokerage? You guys want to give a shout out and sign off and we'll wrap it up?

Micheal Law: Yeah, I'll go ahead and get us wrapped up. Just great seeing you guys again last couple weeks. Looking forward to the next few conferences. Looking forward to the summer. We've got a busy summer schedule up here with a all the domains were working. Got a lot of, a lot of deals in the pipeline. So you know, as I mentioned coming out of namescon, this is probably the most bullish I've been on the domain business, so just super excited to keep it going and thankful for all of you guys as well.

Tess Diaz: I agree. Me too. It was really special to see you both in person, not only to spend time together, but also to strategize, to share insights and ideas, and to work on deals with real people in person. I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him, but I also don't want to not give him credit. 

Anthos from sav.com once said to me, it's really hard to say no to someone when you're looking them in the eye and there is so much value in going to these conferences, brokering deals in person. But also just building relationships in person. When you're looking at someone in the eye, it's harder to dislike them or give them poor credit for texts and emails. Things can get misunderstood or you kind of develop a different idea of someone in your head. 

So, yeah, I'm all for the general conference circuit, but very especially doing deals with the two of you at conferences. So how about you Stone? Over to you.

Stone Harbin: I thought it was great experience doing this, you know, my first podcast, so I feel like I learned a lot already, you know, just jumping into the domain world, and I feel like it's going to be, you know, it's a great start already and just kind of looking forward to it, but, yeah, it's kind of wrapping it up for me.

Brian Harbin: All right.

Micheal Law: We look forward to working with you in the future, too.

Stone Harbin: 

Yes, sir.

Brian Harbin: Well, that's a wrap for the Grit.org podcast featuring grit brokerage. Be sure to check us out wherever you get your podcast, and we'll see you guys next time. 

Have a great day!