Grit Brokerage + Clinton Hicks Discuss the Acquisition of EWN.com Domain Name

Brian Harbin: Well, hello, my name is Brian Harbin. Welcome to today's episode of the Grit.org podcast. Today we're getting into the nitty-gritty, talking about grit brokerage and domain names. So super excited to have Clinton Hicks here along with Maureen Sullivan. So welcome to the show, you guys.

Clinton Hicks: Thanks so much for having me!

Brian Harbin: Absolutely. So just to tell you guys a little bit about Clinton Hicks, he lives in Texas, born and raised, lives there now, went to Liberty University, has spent a decade in IT and has experience doing that, has also had a freelance and consulting business over the course of time as founder and creator of Webcent. He spent 3 years with EWN, which we're going to talk about here today, as the director of marketing communications, and also has a huge passion for ministry. 

So excited to jump in and ask you some questions today, Clinton. But first, wanted to give a quick shout out to our sponsor for today's episode, escrow.com, the world's most secure payment method for online transactions. So whether your transaction's $100 or $100 million, escrow makes sure buying and selling online is safe, secure, and trusted. So rest assured that your transaction for a motor vehicle, electronic equipment, business domain name, or anything significant to you is protected. Visit escrow.com today to learn more about how you can transact with confidence. 

So, Clint, we're going to jump right in. So first of all, just tell our listeners about Energy World, EWN, and how long you worked with them and what your role was.

Clinton Hicks: Yeah, you bet. So EWN, officially known as Energy World Net, started there in September of 2021. So like you had said, been involved in a lot of different industries, but, you know, technology and kind of creativity marketing is kind of interwoven in all of that. And took a job there to really form a design team. They wanted to really kind of shore up their design team, their creative output as an organization. They work primarily in the compliance field, primarily natural gas. And so not an industry that you think is, you know, a lot of creativity, but EWN really stood outside of its competitors and anyone in the industry. 

And so I started there, worked on that team for a couple years. We did so many cool things really out of the norm for our industry and then moved into the director role of marketing and communications. And all through that, my kind of…. one of my core responsibilities was web and domain, you know, online presence. And so that's kind of how I got connected with you all through that. But EWN is what it's kind of known for now. And like I said, it's a leader in the natural gas compliance industry.

Brian Harbin: Interesting! And so when you were working with Energy World Net, was it always called EWN? And when did you guys kind of make that decision that said, hey, we need to go from Energy World Net to EWN?

Clinton Hicks: Yeah, well, so the company was founded, gosh, probably 30 years ago or more. And it was actually founded as Energy Works with a W or with an X. [Excuse me] And so kind of through its iterations it became Energy WorldNet, I think probably during the whole .com era or something like that. I think it was— that's when it was cool to have a part of your name. 

And so, you know, it's kind of funny, over the years they would get phone calls, you know, people wanting to hook up their internet because it's like they go to the phone book and they're like, surely these people can do that, you know. But over the years as the company evolved, you know, Energy WorldNet was really a leader in their industry. And so they started out putting training, compliance training on DVDs, and they were actually the first SaaS product in that industry to move kind of to an online platform. And kind of through that iteration, I think the whole idea was just to continue to streamline. 

And I think the natural gas industry is known for its acronyms. And so it just fit to go, hey, why are we saying all of these, you know, syllables? Let's just go EWN. And so that was a step that was made kind of a couple brand iterations go. And then when I joined the company, they had kind of shifted back to Energy World Net. But everywhere you went in the industry, it was like, oh, you work for EWN, you work for EWN. It's like, yeah, I guess it is EWN. 

And so it's kind of just something that happened slowly over time, I think, was just people didn't want to say the full, you know, kind of weird word. And so, it just kind of became EWN. And that's kind of what it's really officially known as today.

Maureen Sullivan: As the director of marketing and communications, what were some of the domains you considered upgrading to? Was there a tipping point when you knew it was time to start the process of upgrading to EWN?

Clinton Hicks: Yeah, so, you know, like I said, the company went through a really big rebrand in 2020 and kind of really just went all in, like I said, on the energy world in that name. But everyone else in the industry was just EWN, EWN. And so that was always kind of a tension we were trying to manage of like, what's our… really like our main identifier as a company? And so the CEO there, a huge visionary, super passionate about the company, he kind of came to me one day, tapped on my shoulder and said, I think we need to try to get ewn.com, you know, and I'm like, okay. 

And so that was when I honestly, through a super just like super simple Google search. I think I landed on a website that was like, here's the top 3 brokers. And had been involved with domains just through my website work and kind of through the years, and I actually recognized Grip Brokerage. And so I was like, you know, I'm going to reach out. I think I sent an email to Brian. He introduces me to Maureen. And so that's really kind of what got the ball rolling. 

But I think it was for us, we knew that we needed to kind of put our stake in the ground as a company, that we are EWN. And, you know, people are constantly spelling out energyworldnet.com, and that's, you know, we're a SaaS platform, and so people are spelling that out to go And it was just kind of a bold move after the company experienced a lot of growth to say, is this actually possible this time? Because the company had tried in years past to secure ewn.com on their own, and it just never really worked out. And, you know, the negotiations always fell through or something like that. 

And so this was like a really intentional push by the company to, hey, let's do this. And so, you know, we struggled with what domain do we buy? Obviously, a 3-letter top-level domain is not cheap. And so it was kind of one of those things that we really had to figure out. Okay, do we try to come up with a cheaper option or not? And so working with Marene, and excuse me if I kind of get ahead here, but we were really trying to go back and forth of like, okay, do we go with .net, ewn.net, because it kind of fits with our name, you know, and.co is easier. 

But, you know, we actually ran into issues with.co because of its country origin, and that, you know, obviously in America we see it as a company or corporation, but a lot of the global energy companies still kind of tie it to some possible spam with its…. with the country origin. And so we really kind of ran into roadblocks there, but we really liked it and it was a price that we could afford, you know, or more affordable. And so it was just a really big conversation…. internal kind of to strategically move to let's claim this presence, EWN online.

Maureen Sullivan: So yeah, that gets kind of my next question, which was what is, what was the process of buying domains through us? And did you find that having us as professional brokers helped you streamline the process? And I can, you know, jump in a little bit here as we talked about that when we met and when we talked on the phone, the original require— the original inquiry was for ewn.com, and then we realized what the price level was. 

And then I guided and talked you through and worked with you about getting EWN.net.co. And that was in 2022. And then you— we came back together in 2024 and said, let's revisit .com. But it'd be great to hear from your side how you felt that whole process went.

Clinton Hicks: Yeah. Well, you know, I knew, like I said, given my experience, I knew that these were not domains that we were going to go out to GoDaddy or Namecheap or, you know, any sort of registry and be able to secure on our own. You know, of course we could endure their splash page of, you want this domain? You know, we'll try to get it for you. I just knew from my experience, this is not going to be easy. And I kind of communicated that back to my leaders there. 

And so for me, I think the only way to do it was to work with you all. And honestly, it was something I was somewhat comfortable with, but still it's like domain brokerage is, it's like, it's so much bigger than just going to godaddy.com and buying a domain. You know, this is really large assets, large investments. I know I'm not telling you all anything or anything or your listeners, but I think that's, I really had to kind of communicate that internally with the team of like, look, this is not something we can do on our own. 

I don't know, we think we can, but like, this is actually something that, you know, this is a whole world, you know, it's kind of the wild, wild west in some instances. And, you know, you have to really kind of know what you're doing as far as negotiating, and there's emotions involved, and the people selling the domains know that. 

And so, yeah, Maureen, you really kind of helped us, really kind of decide, I think, a strategic move early on with obviously .co,.net,.org. All of those were the lower cost than the .com, but we really started seeing it as a kind of a brand protection strategy in a way of like Yeah, we may never, you know, use these as kind of like our root or primary domains for our platform or for our website, but we still kind of wanted to own them. We didn't want to give anyone the ability to kind of encroach on that, if you will. And so we kind of started off with a, hey, let's just buy as many as we can right now that financially makes sense and kind of shore up some brand protection. 

And, you know, of course, when we started stirring around the price figure of .com, it was kind of like, oh, we don't know if we can do that. And so like you said, there was kind of a gap and we really kind of struggled internally, like I mentioned earlier of, okay, do we go in, can we use .co, can we use .net? And we really kind of just went back and forth. We were asking a lot of people in the industry and that's kind of where we had figured out, okay, these are great domains to have from a brand perspective. Like we want them, we want to own them and we will.

But as far as our primary domain, I think our CEO, like I said, he's a visionary and he was like, he just wasn't gonna stop until he got .com. And so, you know, it was like another day of sitting at my desk, tapping on the shoulder going, now's the time. And of course by that time we had developed such a great relationship that I was like, yep, I've got Maureen on speed dial. We'll figure this out. So yeah, that's kind of that whole process, if you will.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, and it's really smart that, you know, first of all, especially with your experience in IT, you're like, look, you know, when it comes to buying a domain, you were smart to, hey, let's separate the emotion here. Let's get somebody that does this every single day. And you were also smart too. And just like you said, kind of building a digital fortress around EWN and knowing, hey, look, this is our brand and just kind of that brand protection. 

One of the things I wanted to ask too, I don't know if you can touch on this point because I know with 3-letter .coms, they can range from $15,000 up to $5 million and And so, you know, obviously the, the price can be a bit cumbersome for businesses at times. But internally, I mean, I know it's not something typically companies budget for, you know, going into the year. Is it just the kind of thing that, hey, the number is the number and you just have to wrap your head around that as a buyer? Or how do you feel like internally you kind of help justify being able to, to buy, you know, the price it's going to take to be able to get it done?

Clinton Hicks: Yeah, you know, I think, you know, of course, when I, when you're dealing with leaders and owners of a company and, and business people, they're trying to get the best bang for their buck. And so I think it was, it helped for them to see just the price tag, even considerable, considerable investments for, you know, co.net.org. It helped them to kind of warm up to the idea of like, yeah, this is not just your, you know, because we had bought other domains in the past, like, you know, ewn.academy, all those, you know, just popular ones that spring up that, you know, are just not gonna be top level. 

And so it was like, yeah, you can buy those for $999, you know, but, it really kind of, it took, I think, a couple rounds too of like Marine going to, the seller and, and really us kind of fully understanding that he was pretty, he was pretty set on his price. You know, it was like, he has no problem sitting on this. He'd been sitting on it for, you know, 10 years. I'll sit on it for another 20 years, you know, whatever. And there was a lot of, you know, back and forth dialogue. 

And I think at some point when you look at a company like EWN that has experienced exponential growth, you know, a multi-seven-figure company and wanting to really kind of further their brand in the company and actually even expand more into other kind of supply chains compliance industries outside of just particularly that segment of natural gas, you really kind of start wondering, okay, I, the way I kind of always framed it was like, and maybe this is wrong, maybe this is right, I don't know. I always looked at it as like real estate, like how we look at real estate. You know, a lot of companies would go out and they would spend a chunk of, a lot more chunk of change to be on the corner, right? You know, it's like you look all across America and you know, you know, Walgreens and CVS are paying a pretty penny for every quarter lot that they have. 

And so that's kind of the way I started thinking about it and framing and having conversations of like, we really got to think about. You know, in the world that we live in, this is like the corner lot, you know, like this is, this is the heavy traffic. This is what we, what people know us as. This is what's going to make it easy for us to even simplify the language of our company, the visual identity and our brand and our logo and things like that. And so I think it was just a lot of education, you know, it's just a lot of people that just, they, it's like, what, how can, how can 3 letters and a .com cost, you know, 6 figures? 

And then you're just like, well, it just does, you know. And you've got to kind of just start getting down to, you know, like you said, the nitty-gritty of really this world. And I think obviously Marine helped us do that, in kind of that process. And so eventually I think the company just decided, hey, this is now or not, you know, it's now or never. Let's just…. let's jump in and go. And I think it's….  I think it's paid off for them.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And that education piece of just knowing, hey, this is what these things are selling for, and so what were some immediate effects you saw once you guys did get ownership of EWN and were able to start using it?

Clinton Hicks: You know, it was one of those things that we actually bought it and we didn't, we didn't activate it on like super quickly. And I still think honestly, after I've left, they're still trying to figure that out. And that's…. it's a very multifaceted because like I said, it is a SaaS product and you've got hundreds of thousands of users and a lot of the end devices are pointing towards a particular domain that their, their companies are kind of whitelisting. 

And so for us, it was kind of a play at first of, hey, we've got this now. We can actually make plans based on this because, you know, for a long time it was like, we want to be EWN. We actually want to move our logo and our identity to EWN. But your website is energyworldnet.com, you know? So it's like, we wanted to make it seamless, you know, like it was just simple across the board. And so that was the immediate effect is, okay, we can actually make decisions to start, to, to start moving the company that way. 

And so, you know, we of course put a, you know, a simple just forward redirect on the, you know, so someone went there, it redirected to us just so it wouldn't lock on a splash page or anything. And so now though, so that was kind of leading up and Energy World Network – EWN, they do a user conference every 2 years called EWN Con. And it's by far one of the largest events and by far kind of one of the most unique events. We hold it here in Arlington. Right in the center of the entertainment district. So you got the Cowboys Stadium, Rangers. I mean, it's just a, it's a jam-packed conference, not, not just your normal, you know, hotel conference. 

And so we decided that's where we were going to release the name. That's where we were going to kind of finally just say, you've all been saying it, now we're going to say it too. This is who we are. We are EWN. And so through that we redid the logo, kind of used our same icon., but simplified the verbiage to EWN and released it there. And it kind of just fits, you know, it's really, it's simple. And I know that as they're working, it…. very soon it will be the, the primary and only domain will be ewn.com. The platform that people use will be on that as well. 

So getting it was kind of like the— it was the gate to, to what's next for the company. I don't think the company could have ever kind of made their stake as we are EWN now and in both written, visual, until they had that domain. It was kind of like the missing piece all along. And so once we got it, it was kind of like, all right, this is who we are.

Brian Harbin: And like you said, too, even just the simple redirect EWN to your main site until you give yourself a chance to get everything ready and prepared. And when you go to— did you notice the most immediate impact when you go to a conference and you say EWN? Was there anything notable about when you're talking to customers, clients, potential clients about how that— would the marketing get easier, anything kind of to that point that you think you could, you could share?

Clinton Hicks: Yeah, I'll be honest with you. The joke— so one of the owners at the time, we had informed her of kind of the decision and her first thing was, oh good, does my email change? It was like everybody was so excited about a shorter email, you know, it was like it can just be my name at ewn.com. And so that was actually the first thing that we did was like that. Everybody honestly was so excited because, you know, to try to tell people, okay, my email is this, this@energy, spell it out, WorldNet. 

And people are like, wait, two words that, you know, so anyways, that's just kind of a side funny thing that I thought was funny when we went through it was like, everybody was like, oh, thank goodness my email can change. And it was like, all right, well, I mean that there, and there's validity to that. You know, it definitely, it helps, but. 

Beyond that, I think it just, I think everyone in the industry and people that saw it kind of were like, yeah, I'm not surprised by that. Like I'm actually surprised that y'all didn't have it before. You know, it was, it was one of those kinds of things of like, that's just, yeah, that makes sense. And it, you know, it's just, of course we had to kind of catch up to it and finally make the step to, to make the investment happen.

Maureen Sullivan: How do you think owning ewn.com will help safeguard the brand and the business growth over the next 5 to 10 years?

Clinton Hicks: Yeah, like I said, I think it's, it really introduced the next level of, of EWN. You know, I can speak freely about this, but yesterday they actually just announced, and this was kind of happening towards the end of my tenure there, but they just got an investment from Noble Rock Software. And so EWN is on the trajectory for really large growth. They want to be the leader. They already are a strong leader, but I think they want to even shore up their tools and the product even more. 

And so I think having that domain was kind of the crux to really kind of build upon all of this because at the end of the day, everyone's going to be going to ewn.com. You know, you're going to have thousands of energy workers across the US navigating to that domain. And I think it's just, it's more simple. And I think it kind of really fits in with the whole mantra of the company, which was to simplify compliance management, right? This doesn't have to be something that's really abstract and complicated. EWM, we provide tools that simplify it. 

So to me, it's really kind of just a reflection of the brand. It's like, this is who we are. We're simple. And of course, you're always going to have Energy World Net, and people are still going to reference it that, and you'll have all the legal part of that, you know, that's maybe still involved with that. But I think to the clients, to the end users, to the industries, they see EWM just as the simple kind of leader that they are.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, kind of that immediate authority, right, that comes with…. [Crosstalk]

Clinton Hicks: Exactly. 

Brian Harbin: That premium. [Crosstalk] Yeah, exactly. And with your experience, you know, obviously having done freelance for 10 years now and, and really an IT specialist, what's kind of your advice to, to clients? Because I know you do a lot of web design and things like that. Where do you feel like the domain piece kind of fits in to the overarching theme of web design and, and you know, kind of building an online brand for a company?

Clinton Hicks: You know, I'm kind of probably unique in that, you know, even when I have my own idea or I'm working with a company, one of my first questions is, is like, have you secured a domain or what domain have you secured? Because I really think that's kind of like you can build a website, you can do kind of all the things, but if it's, if it's odd or if it's hard to get to or if it, you know, if it's just the cadence of it doesn't flow, I think it kind of really impacts things, you know, it's like, to me, it's like, you know, like I said, I've always thought about it like real estate is like location, location, location, and your domain is kind of your location, your location, your location. 

And so that's kind of where I always start. And honestly, like I said, when I have an idea, typically the first place I go to is a domain registrar, go, hey, can I secure this? Because I know this is really kind of the most important part. You know, I can change a brand later, I can change copy, I can change, but like I can change a lot of things, but as far as my address on the World Wide Web, that's pretty…. that's pretty important. 

And so that's something that I really, I kind of focus on and a lot of the clients that I work at, I make sure that A, they have it, they have brand protection around it if they need it, if it makes sense. Obviously, when you're working with larger companies, it makes more sense. You know, some of my more smaller clients, maybe not so much, maybe so, you know, maybe it's if, if they're going to have exponential growth, thinking ahead, going, hey, where could people actually buy a domain and, you know, cause harm to your brand. 

And so that's where I think one of the decisions what we did at EWN was buying up a lot of, you know, real estate around EWN and even Energy World Net because we wanted to protect our name. We didn't want anyone to ever be able to encroach in or we didn't want to create confusion, especially when we were in the business of kind of clarity and simplifying an already kind of arduous thing in compliance.

Brian Harbin: And you touched on this a little bit earlier, but what's kind of your take on, you know, we like to tell, you know, people that professionals hire professionals and that's why you need a domain broker. But kind of from, from your experience, what do you feel like is the value add of having a domain broker for these type assets?

Clinton Hicks: You know, I think you can all go back to time, right? I mean, you can spend a lot of time trying to do something and you really you're going to waste a lot of time. And that was kind of, that was the benefit of working with Maureen and you all at GRIT was like, it was the cadence of getting information back. Typically I didn't work fast enough. I don't feel like, you know, I felt like Maureen was like two steps ahead of me. You know, she's like, I need an answer. 

But having that information to be able to go out and say, okay, hey, compared to other domains, this is where you're at. Like, and so just having all the tools and the information is really imperative because like I said, there's a million websites out there that you can go and they'll try to, you know, they're going to try to, say, yeah, we can get their domain and all this kind of stuff. But I don't know that they always have the expertise or the personal touch. 

Whereas I knew…. I knew talking to Marina on the phone of like when we needed to move quicker, when it was kind of an okay place to pause, like just having the guidance of going, okay, like the human element, right? Because, you know, we're talking about the internet and we're talking about even sometimes these faceless people that own these domains. So having that human kind of component. In it to go, I think you're actually on it, or hey, no, we can actually go in this way and we're going to do this and kind of help you negotiate. 

That's everything, right? I mean, that just brings confidence and it brings kind of a surety to the investment because I think a lot of people, you could maybe do it on your own, but you might in the end have a lot of heartache and spend a lot more money and time than you needed to. 

So for me, it was, and like I said, internally I was always kind of an advocate of like, you know, and there were not often, but you know, there were just some people like, well, let's just get it. And I'm like, well, let's actually not, let's actually make sure we're doing the right thing here. You know, it's worth the small investment when you're, when you're dealing with large things. I don't have a problem paying a small percentage to make sure that I'm, I'm doing the right thing. 

So for me it was, it was confidence. And you know, time is money. It saved a lot of time having that person to help kind of go fight.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, I love that! And last question I have in case Maureen, there's anything you wanna ask as well, but the last question I have is just anything that, or how can people find out more about what you do and the services that you offer? I know you've got your freelance business, Webcint. Anything that you want to plug here about what you do and your services?

Clinton Hicks: Yeah, so I own Webcint and primarily do web design, web solutions for small businesses. And so I really try to make things that are often not accessible to a lot of businesses more accessible, kind of bring all my experience with working with multimillion-dollar organizations and, and kind of bring it and package it in a way that smaller companies can, you know, access that. So if you're a small business, nonprofit, you need help, please reach out to me. You can find me on LinkedIn or websint.com. And so, yeah, appreciate you letting me plug that. And, yeah.

Maureen Sullivan: Yeah, Clinton, it was great working with you on all of these domains. What I love about it was we did build a partnership of trust together that got us through one domain and the next so that when we went to do the .com we really work great together to get it done. And it was, it's been a wonderful experience working with you.

Clinton Hicks: Yeah. Well, Maureen, I, it was so, so much fun working with you. You know, I worked with a lot of vendors and partners and I gotta say that this relationship was by far one of the best. And I'm not just saying that cuz I'm on your podcast, truly. I really… I enjoyed our conversations and you even checked up on me when we didn't have business. You know, it was just kind of, to know that you're in the mind of vendors and the best interest of our company is in the mind of vendors is really big. And I know that that was true for you. 

And I joked before we hit record that you were on speed dial, but for a while there, you really were at the top of the list. I was like, you know, I know the person and I'm thankful that as I move forward working with different companies, whatever it kind of looks like for me, I will never use anyone else. You know, I've got the relationship with you. And so I've even recommended, hey, if you need help, this is the route that you go. So appreciate you all so much.

Brian Harbin: Thank you! Thank you, Clinton! And yes, Maureen is a rock star. So…. 

Clinton Hicks: She is. 

Brian Harbin: We really appreciate you hopping on! 

This is just super helpful, just being able to dive in and ask you some questions about this because like you said, the education piece of understanding domains is, is something that we want to try and get out to more people and understand the value and the benefit of owning a premium domain. 

So really appreciate being on and appreciate you guys tuning in for today's episode of the Grit.org podcast, and we'll see you guys back here next time.

Thanks again!